On track for resilience: How the rail industry is adapting to climate change

Transport networks are the backbone of modern life, yet they are increasingly vulnerable to the impacts of climate change. In this episode, host Phil Emonson is joined by two leading voices in rail: Network Rail's Lisa Constable, Head of Climate Change Resilience and Adaptation and Paul McBurney, Head of Structures & Third-Party Works at Translink, Northern Ireland, to explore what climate resilience looks like in practice. Together, they discuss how extreme weather is reshaping operational decision-making, the adaptation pathways needed for long-lived infrastructure, approaches to securing investment, and the lessons other sectors can learn from rail's experience. Whether you work in infrastructure, policy, emergency management, or simply care about building more resilient communities, this episode offers practical insights into the power of data, collaboration, long-term planning, and strategic investment.

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SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello and welcome to the Climate Resilience Podcast brought to you by JBA Consulting. I'm Phil Emmonson, and in this podcast series we unpick some of the complexities, challenges, and opportunities on the topic of climate resilience with some inspirational thought leaders. Whether you're working on local adaptation projects, planning for climate risk, or simply looking for hope backed by science, you're in the right place. If you enjoy these conversations, be sure to follow the podcast and subscribe wherever you listen. Share with your friends and colleagues too, anyone interested in building a more resilient future. Now, let's jump into today's episode. Our transport networks form part of our critical national infrastructure. They connect people to jobs, education, healthcare, and to one another. And they allow our supply chains to function effectively, moving the goods we need so they're in the right place at the right time. But they're also increasingly exposed to the impacts of our changing climate, from extreme heat and flooding to landslides and storms and coastal erosion. The challenge facing transport operators is no longer whether climate change will affect their networks, but how they can adapt. In today's episode, I'm joined by two leading voices from the rail sector who are helping to shape that response. Paul McBurney from Translink and Lisa Constable from Network Rail. We'll explore the lessons being learned from recent weather events, what climate resilience means in practice for rail and transport, and how the organizations are adapting aging infrastructure for an uncertain future. So if you're working in infrastructure or policy or emergency management, or simply interested in how we build a more resilient transport network, I think this will be a really fascinating conversation. So, Paul, Lisa, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you with us. And maybe you could start by introducing yourselves. Paul, we'll come to you first.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Okay, thanks, Phil. Hello, Lisa. Also. So I'm a chartered civil engineer. Uh previously worked with the Highways Authority in Northern Ireland after graduating from university and a design section in highway structures, civil engineering assets across the whole of the province. I joined the rail sector seven years ago with Translink. And for those of you who don't know what Trans who Translink are, we're an integrated public bus and rail provider for Northern Ireland. I joined Translink as a professional head-hand asset owner, so essentially wearing two hats in the railway infrastructure division, responsible for bridges, sea defenses, earthworks, drainage, retaining walls, tunnels, viaducts, etc. Wearing two hats in the day-to-day job, I'm responsible for safe management and maintenance of assets, and also for setting the policy and strategy to make sure that they're fit for purpose for tomorrow. Another key aspect of my role is that I have taken the lead on the development of the first climate change adaptation strategy for the business, predominantly focused on railway infrastructure. So hopefully today I can illustrate in fairly practical and simple terms from the perspective of an asset owner, predominantly, what some of the challenges have been around our early adaptation journey. And we are at the start of that journey at present. So I'm pleased to pleased to be invited to partake in the podcast today, Phil. Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah, thanks, Paul. It's great to have you. You and I have been talking about this podcast for about a year. So it's great to finally make it happen. And Lisa as well, maybe you could uh introduce you uh and your your background as well, please.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yeah, hi, thanks. Nice to nice to be with you both today. Um, so my role is head of climate resilience and adaptation for network rail. So we own and operate the railway infrastructure across England, Scotland, and Wales and Great Britain. Um, I've been in this role for 10 years, and I sit in a national function that provides overarching strategic guidance, uh, the standards and control framework for managing risk and providing guidance and support to our regions and routes who are responsible for delivery of and operating the railway on the ground. So I think it's the my overarching role is try is making sure that the railway keeps operating in the future as climate change makes um operating in weather increasingly challenging. And um, yeah, just trying to build a resilient transport system.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Brilliant, brilliant. Well, look, in the introductions you've both given there, um there are a lot of things that we're gonna unpick. You both mentioned infrastructure, assets, keeping the railways running, uh, managing risk. So gonna dive in. Um so as I said in the introduction, uh the rail network is increasingly becoming exposed to the impacts of of climate change. Um so this is this is where I'd like to start today. So, how is the weather and more broadly our our climate uh and and the changing climate affecting the rail network? What what impacts have we seen over recent years? Um Lisa, I'll throw that over to you first.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

At the moment, we've had a lot of heat waves, um, so we're definitely seeing impacts from heat, but pretty much any kind of weather that you can get in the UK impacts the railway in one way or another. And there's a wide range of impacts and interdependencies affecting the system. Hot weather can affect tracks and power lines, heavy rain can overwhelm drainage systems, it can trigger flooding and landslides, um, storms bring down trees and damage infrastructure, and coastal routes can be affected by uh coastal erosion and wave action causing washouts. And um, you know, we've seen some dramatic um evidence of that in the past with um parts of the network being washed into the sea. I think the key point is that climate change is increasing many of the risks that we already face. We're seeing hotter temperatures, more intense rainfall, rising sea levels, more extreme weather, and the railway was largely built for the climate of the past. So one of our biggest challenges is making sure that it remains safe and reliable for the climate of the future.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

And and and Paul, from the Northern Ireland perspective, um I I seem to recall there was a storm uh a year, 18 months ago, which was uh they put a a red warning attached to that. I'm sure that would have impacted the the rail network in terms of um you know keeping trains running and speed restrictions and and and damage and so on. Um anything else you'd like to add from from what Lisa's just described?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Well, really all of the above, Phil, from what Lisa has said, you know, it's a it's a similar picture in in Northern Ireland. Um yes, Stormy Owen was particularly impactful on the province in January 2025, uh, when gusts over 90 miles per hour, and and as Lisa described, you know, incredibly difficult in terms of a combination of um that wind with uh high tides, uh impacts on coastal routes, the impact on some of the trees around the railway network. Um so, yes, it was incredibly impactful on the railway. I suppose, as well as um think about the impacts, one of the key things for me when we think about weather and climate change is to sort of separate those two things from an asset owner's perspective. So weather, what we experience today, um, as an asset owner, we tend to think look, weather is what we know is going to happen this week. Climate change is very much what we're planning for tomorrow. And obviously, the weather today has been impacted by the changing climate as well. Um, there's also a danger when we think about climate change as asset owners, to think about a problem that is sometime in the future. So we prepare for risks around present day, but also 2050, 2080, looking to the future. But but it's not, it's really about dealing with the weather today and making sure that we prepare for the changes to that weather that we're going to face in the future, which is climate change. Um, it doesn't really fill for me create a series of new problems for asset owners in that. And and by that I mean that asset owners have always managed the assets based around weather conditions, the condition of the assets, the capacity of the assets we've been designing for the future for a considerable period of time now, since certainly since I've been a civil engineer, we've been designing for 120 years, plus climate change impacts on bridges, for example. Um, but I suppose one of the key things is that we are seeing more and more data now, which shows the impact on the railway network. The railways are really rich. One of the key things that that I learned, I suppose, from um coming from the highways to the railway sector is how rich in data the railways actually are around safety, service performance, the impacts of weather, um, asset condition, all of that. So we've got the data to prove that there are changes happening on the railway. We've got the data to prove it's becoming more costly and more impactful. And that data has been tracked for considerable periods of time, largely down to how we manage data from a safety perspective in the railway. Um, so there's a real, real, really positive opportunity for us to to document and understand exactly the journey that we are on and the risks that we're liable to face going forward in the railway.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

And and we'll come on to um funding, I'm sure, uh, in this conversation, but um you're a really great place to start. And um, you know, those those impacts, and I'm I'm thinking here about the points that I mentioned in the introduction about how society relies on um the rail network. So, yeah, we've had all those impacts from heat and flooding and landslides and coastal um uh level sea levels, um, coastal erosion as well, um, and and actually the impact that then has on society to just keep functioning. And you know, Paul, you mentioned the storm there from January 25. You know, I'm sure there would have been um enormous impacts on society in terms of you know people being able to get to work and school and and so on and so forth. Um I want to start to move this into resilience then. Um you know, now that we understand the challenges that you face in terms of weather and climate, um obviously every episode of this podcast we talk about you know what is what is resilience in in the discipline that we're talking about or the sets that we're talking about. So, you know, what what resilience do you need to factor in? Do you need to build in to those strategies and to those plans? And you know, what what does what does that resilience look like for um users of the rail network? Um again, Lisa, I'd like to come to you first on that one.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Sure, no worries. Um there's a range of different activities with in the term resilience. So you're looking at your preparedness for an event when you're when it's forecast to be on its way, how you respond to that event, how you recover from the impact, and then in the longer term, how you build or build resistance into the system so that you can reduce the likelihood of impacts occurring into the future. What my role is focusing on is how do we adapt the infrastructure system in order to build that resilience so that we aren't impacted by uh weather events to the same extent. However, it's not possible to adapt our way out of every type of event. There will always be a super extreme storm that causes some sort of impact. And we're already seeing how significant the impacts are just from a hot summer causing problems on the trains. Um and we had flooding issues over the winter. Um, I'm telling people within Network Rail, this is the new normal, get used to this because it's going to be happening more often. So we can't we can't forget about the way we've responded in the future. In terms of what resilience we need to build into the system, government has indicated that we should be setting objectives to be resilient to two degrees of global warming by 2050. To do that across our entire network is prohibitively expensive. Um and to meet the other objective that they have, which is to perform to the same level as we do today. So kind of keeping delays and cancellations by 2050 to around about the same level as they are today, um, is also a very tricky thing to do when there is limited funding to be managing and increasing the aging uh asset base. How do we identify where we should be building resilience into the system? And for me, I think the key thing is well, what is expected? What level of resilience or service do we need to build into the network? Because we don't necessarily need to have the entire network fully resistant to any kind of climate impact by 2050. So we've developed a um an approach to categorizing the network according to its strategic priority. Um, you know, is it an important um commuter route or freight route? Does it connect communities? Does it connect um important industries? And then allocating um, you know, does that part of the network need to resist all but the most extreme events and never close? Or is it okay for it to be down for a day, a week, a month, a few months, and therefore we need to look at at closing the line and rerouting and moving people in a different way? So the work that we're doing at the moment is is trying to help us understand how we can, you know, what are those long-term ambitions in relation to the level of resilience we want to build into the system, and then how do we use our business as usual renewal and maintenance activity and our targeted adaptation interventions to help us build that into the system?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Brilliant. And I'm I'm really interested in this in this concept of you know what what is expected, I think was the phrase you you used, you know, um yeah, um expected by um government, expected by um network rail yourselves, expected by society, um, you know, and and um the standards that we that we set around that. Um Paul, I'd like to bring you in because you mentioned at the top that you've been developing the climate adaptation resilience strategy for for Translink. Um so again, from the Northern Ireland perspective, you know, what what what does that look like in Northern Ireland? What resilience do you need to build in and factor into your planning?

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Uh much much similar, only a much smaller network, uh Phil. And as an integrated transport company, we have the ability to obviously have uh buses on standby, so we cover both bus and rail. Um and we've become particularly good, I have to say, at managing uh weather events and being resilient without actually thinking about resilience. Um so by that I mean, you know, we've um we've got an awful lot of uh good tacit knowledge around the railway network from um from people who have uh had 20, 25 year careers uh in translit, who understand where sections of the track come under pressure under certain weather conditions, all of that stuff has been captured in policy and and and we've used that to become more resilient on a day-to-day and year-to-year basis. So um with severe weather um uh teams and um extreme weather teams uh cross collaboration prior to any weather events, making sure that we have um uh uh a fairly accurate and ever-improving picture of how rainfall, how extreme temperatures are likely to impact us based on advanced forecasting. So we've become naturally more resilient. What resilience means in the future is I mean, even thinking about the term resilience in itself, um, there's a bit of confusion always around what resilience means. Some people think that resilience automatically means that nothing closes, and Lisa has already covered some of that. And I do particularly like the the network rail approach to um resist rapid recovery, bounce back, do you fix it on failure? Um, do you re-root or close? I do particularly like that thinking because not everything can be fixed for um every particular uh extreme scenario in the future. It's completely unfeasible to do that. Um so yeah, so I mean, in terms of root sections, we have six root sections, and and we will be looking at those in a similar way to how network real have looked at their network, only the network real networks obviously had a much greater capacity.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Um, Paul, I wonder if you could just expand on the point you made earlier about data and the ri the richness of data, but also the importance of data. Um presumably then there has been a ranking exercise of the risk exposure across the network to different climate hazards. So is that is that information then being used to a bit like um Lisa was saying, to then prioritize and identify the A the vulnerabilities but also then the response activities. Is is that that sort of same approach that you adopt in Translink?

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yes, very much so. Um the the performance related data, so obviously for um for some of the data which the the railways do hold are predominantly around asset performance, safety, um service performance, um the uh closures, the availability of service, all of that. So it's really I suppose service and safety focus predominantly is the data that's held. We do have data which clearly uh shows us uh in recent times that weather impacts on our assets have either equaled or exceeded the impacts of what we traditionally have called uh asset condition related issues on the network. So weather has become more and more of a challenge, uh, and weather will continue to become more and more of a challenge going forward. So we do have the data, and we we will present some of that in uh as evidence, I suppose, in the strategy uh to explain why it is important that we take action now, uh, preparing for the future, looking at the risks of the future, some of that the trajectory of you know the impact of storm events becoming more and more impactful, the expectation of the public as well. Phil, just what you had mentioned a few minutes ago about the public expectation on service. And it there was one particular line that I think David Porter on a previous podcast of yours used what infrastructure is a service. Correct, yeah, and that resonated with me um fairly clearly that I do believe you know the public don't look out the window and have concerns over the infrastructure that supports the railway, they just want to get from A to B and they want to get there without disruption.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah, and thanks for the plug for the previous episode as well. Um, but you're you're right, he he definitely he definitely did make that point. Um, you know, and whilst you were talking there, I was thinking about you know how how assets operate within a system, you know, our assets are not treated in isolation, but but actually um holistically, you know, with surrounding and dependent systems themselves. So yeah, treating your network um in in that way um is obviously much more important. Um so we spoke about your um your approach to managing uh ever-increasing climate risks. Um Lisa, you referenced trying to do more with sort of less funding, uh as it as it were, um, and meeting those expectations of uh performing at the same level as we do today in the future, but doing that with limited funding, but in a way that uh allows the system to still function. So how how do you fund it? Um I know you you know you spoke about prioritization and understanding those most critical routes for you know commuters or for freight and and prioritizing investment there. Um but what what are your sort of longer-term you know funding programs looking like in terms of the network and and how and how do you fund it?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Well, we fund resilience in the same way that we fund other major railway priorities, so that's through our long-term business planning and investment processes. The key is understanding where climate risks are greatest and targeting investment where it will have the biggest benefit. So um we are in the process of investment planning for our next funding period, which starts in 2029. This is actually going to be an integrated track and train business plan. So to date, we've been Network Rail, which is infrastructure, but as Great British Railways is coming in in the next year or so, uh, we will be bringing train operators into our Plans as well. And so what we're doing from a climate resilience perspective is taking our long-term adaptation pathway strategy development work, which is what is helping us identify where our priority roots are and what our key risks are along those different corridors, and identifying what work will be delivered through our business as usual asset renewals and where we need to be targeting specific intervention from an adaptation perspective. And we're actually just commissioning a piece of work right now to really help us quantify the expected kind of financial impact of climate change on railway metrics. So on, you know, how much might it increase delays and cancellations and um safety metrics and revenue metrics, etc., so that we can see with no action what might this be costing us, and therefore, what is the consequence of not investing? You know, we want to be spending this money now. If we don't spend this now, what is the consequence on our long-term targets, on the bow wave of future investment required if we just delay? You can't not fix some of these problems, but if you push them into the future, they make them bigger problems and more expensive. So we're trying to build the business case, trying to really demonstrate the um the value of investment now and the consequence of not investing now, to be able to put forward a plan to government which very clearly sets out what we would like to do, why we want to do it, and um hopefully they will give us the money to do as much of it as possible.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah, and and and Lisa, you've mentioned a phrase there, adaptation pathways, that uh we've discussed many times on uh previous episodes. Uh it comes up a lot. Um, you know, I identifying the critical points at which adaptation is needed. It doesn't all need to be done today, so it's about identifying what needs to be invested and when. Um Paul, what do the adaptation pathways look like for translink?

SPEAKER_01 24:24

So um the adaptation pathways for translink at present. Now we are still uh we do expect to launch our full final version of the strategy um in August. So I'm mindful of the fact that the strategy has not been made public just yet. Yeah, um, but but broadly the the adaptation pathways um are four various categories. Uh one of those is that we look to additional maintenance activities. So we look to uh uh further expand on some of the proactive sort of drainage management that we have undertaken. Uh we look to target inspections around the understanding the risks of future. So by that I mean as a previous bridge inspector, you don't just look at the present-day condition of the bridge, and typically you don't do that anyway, but but you also then look at some of the defects and you try to triage the potential for a washout, say, for example, of a bridge where you've noticed some minor defects and the urgency, considered the potential for that bridge to check to uh to be to be washed, uh washed out or or adversely impacted in the next event that you have not seen. So it's not just assessing on present-day conditions, it's looking forward. Um so that's additional maintenance. There's a the there is a pathway around uh bolstering the maintenance activities that we already undertake and thinking about future impacts when we um produce maintenance uh action lists. The severe weather preparedness is the the next sort of pathway for us. So looking at how we uh respond and recover um bring ring fencing some uh project funded, for example, uh emergency uh capital project delivery to allow us for full recovery. So, you know, uh going back to your question to Lisa earlier on funding, one of the key challenges in Northern Ireland is that we are currently funded slightly differently, and that we have uh our budgets are set annually by local government. Now, that does not give us the certainty that we need to get into a control period type of funding uh program that is improving and hopefully will improve. I know there is there have been recent conversations around uh three-year budgets being set. So that will allow us a degree of certainty around having a pot of money that allows us to respond. At present, it's uh it's more uh every time there is an event, we have to uh try to obtain the funding to deal with that event for full recovery. So by full recovery, I mean if an earthwork fails, for example, that you have to obviously make it safe immediately, get trains running again. But there will be a speed restriction potentially in place for several months if the funding isn't available to do a full repair. Um that's additional maintenance and severe willer preparedness. The other two are around condition-led capital works. So I think Lisa's already touched on that. But um, when we have we have programmes of condition-led capital works currently, and making sure, I suppose, that that we have factored in the potential for future climate change and the risks that we are identifying in the strategy and integrate that into our current condition-led capital programmes. The last one is purely resilience-led capital interventions themselves, um, and that would be around the uh the capital investment in assets where condition is not necessarily the lead indicator for action. Could be raising sea defences, um, for example. Um, it could be um slope monitoring sensors, uh, installation and having to carry out some further strengthening works because of some of the indications coming from those. It could be um improving the capacity of genades, not because of condition, but purely because of capacity issues for the future. So um so that's kind of the fourth strand or pathway, I suppose we would see from the strategy.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Brilliant, fantastic, yeah, yeah. Um look, it's amazing how quickly time ticks on on these episodes. Um, we've covered a lot all already. Um it's been a it's been a great conversation. Um I suppose I've got one final question, and it's it's something I've asked on on previous episodes really, but but why? Why is it that climate resilience matters um to the rail sector? We've touched on it as as we've gone through, but um I'm just interested if you could sort of both sum that up really. Um Paul, I'll come to you and then I'll give Lisa the final the final word on this. So, Paul, why does climate resilience matter to Translink?

SPEAKER_01 28:54

The I suppose for me, the uh as an asset owner of the railway, the the railway is perhaps the sector within transportation that is most dependent on the performance of uh the supporting infrastructure. Um, there's a significant proportion of railway infrastructure which still exists and dates back to the Victorian era, so 160, 170 years ago. Um, we uh assume uh that the maintenance they've been well built. Um, the engineers of the past and the Victorian era built things to last, but they haven't particularly been well maintained, nor uh do we understand fully uh if what we need those that 160, 170-year-old infrastructure to do going forward in the future. So there's always that risk of infrastructure that was built to last, but has now got to a point where it's being asked to do a lot more than it has ever been done, than it has ever been required to do. Um railway infrastructure is important because it does provide a service, going back to my previous comment. It connects communities, uh, supports economic growth, it enables uh access to healthcare, uh, education, employment, and it also the resilient railway provides uh an opportunity to meet government targets and or societal goals around a low-carbon alternative method of transport and encouraging members of the public to get out of their uh vehicles and get onto public transport. Um so a resilient and adequately adapted railway is critical to facilitate net zero and decarbonisation targets. It's an enabler, is how I see that as well. Brilliant, brilliant, love that.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Um, Lisa, final word from you on this then. Why does climate resilience matter to network layer?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Paul pinched part of my answer. Um I think you know the railway really is an indicator of how resilient society is. Whenever there's a storm, whenever there's a heat wave, the media crews come straight to the railway to see how it's operating. And the railway is all about keeping people and goods moving. And if we aren't able to keep people and goods moving, then that has not an implication on the whole of society in relation to jobs, education, healthcare, family, putting food on shelves in supermarkets. And I think that you know we have a responsibility as custodians of the railway to find a way of keeping it going uh in a way that is appropriate to the way that we want to be living in the future, and so that is a low-carbon um resilient future, and what we can do to be building that into the system now, spending today's money on building that future, I think is really important. You know, we want to climate resilience isn't just about protecting infrastructure, it's about protecting the services and connection connections that society depends on every day.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Brilliant, brilliant. And and and there's the soundbite right at the end there. Thank you. That's been a super discussion. Thank you. And um uh yeah, I think um what stood out for me, as you've both just very um eloquently described, is that you know, um resilience in the transport and rail network, you know, isn't just about service um reliability or or or asset performance, but actually there are these interdependencies on finance and and organizational governance and strategy and and and people at the heart of that, you know, and and uh uh resilience isn't isn't simply a function of asset condition, but actually whole system capacities and and those interdependencies. Um so I've I've really enjoyed that that conversation. Um thank you, Paul and Lisa, for coming on the podcast today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

So we've reached the end of our time today. If you've enjoyed listening, please hit the subscribe button so you're ready for our next episode in a month's time. And if you'd like to support the show, consider sharing it with others or leaving us a short review wherever you're listening. It really helps more people to discover and enjoy the podcast. Thanks for joining us. I'm Phil Emonson, and you've been listening to the Climate Resilience Podcast brought to you by JBA Consulting.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

The railway was largely built for the climate of the past, so one of our biggest challenges is making sure that it remains safe and reliable for the climate of the future.